So, the economy is fucked

[GoodCitizenDan]

Fannie mae, Indymac, and Freddie mac are out of the game. AIG will be dead in a few months even with the government bailout. It looks like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and washington mutual may be next to die. Washington Mutual is probably going to get bought out, though. Runaway inflation is expected over the next few years to the point where 100% inflation sounds possible. The worst is yet to come. You'll be able to ignore most of these issues until about Q1 or Q2 of next year when the shit will really hit the fan.

Here's what I'm thinking...

Let's all pool our money and buy some shitty housing complex out in eastern europe. Everything is cheap as fuck out there.

Damn, I knew I should have invested in gold years ago. How was I supposed to know that magic cards and beanie babies wouldn't be a good long-term investment?!?!

[fibula]

Im glad I never have to worry about finacial issues

I never have any money

[MsThang]

First off, Fannie & Freddie are not out of the game. The bailout was, IMO, necessary since the government was the one who set their ridiculously low liquidity standards. No way will they be allowed to fail. The infrastructure for mortgage loans based on Fannie/Freddie are far too deep for them to go under.

Everyday I see the changes Fannie especially is making in order to get back to a state of liquidity.

I haven't been able to ignore these issues for the last year and a half, and most market analysts have said that after Q2 of next year, things should be on a fairly steady increase.

AIG, Morgan Stanley will most likely not go under either. The central banks just pumped 180 billion into the system. And there is a bill similar to the Savings & Loan debacle in the works right now.

I'm depressed every day I go to work. I have to take two-four unpaid days off starting in October. Trust me, I see these things first hand all the time. Hopefully the news I'm getting is right. Because I might blow my brains out soon if it isn't.

[GoodCitizenDan]

First off, Fannie & Freddie are not out of the game. The bailout was, IMO, necessary since the government was the one who set their ridiculously low liquidity standards. No way will they be allowed to fail. The infrastructure for mortgage loans based on Fannie/Freddie are far too deep for them to go under.

Everyday I see the changes Fannie especially is making in order to get back to a state of liquidity.

I haven't been able to ignore these issues for the last year and a half, and most market analysts have said that after Q2 of next year, things should be on a fairly steady increase.

AIG, Morgan Stanley will most likely not go under either. The central banks just pumped 180 billion into the system. And there is a bill similar to the Savings & Loan debacle in the works right now.

I'm depressed every day I go to work. I have to take two-four unpaid days off starting in October. Trust me, I see these things first hand all the time. Hopefully the news I'm getting is right. Because I might blow my brains out soon if it isn't.

I hope you're right but I doubt things will be that easy.

Lets take AIG for example. I'm pretty sure that the government 'bail out' isn't meant to save the company from ruin. It was designed so that they could make an orderly withdrawal from the market instead of selling off all their infrastructure at desperation prices.

Are you getting all this information from your company? At this point everything is way too chaotic to make any real accurate predictions. It could flip either way on any small piece of good/bad news now.


I'm just hoping that nothing effects the food supply. An economic downturn is a bummer, but without something akin to the dust bowl we're still WAY off from great depression level poverty.

[MsThang]

I hope you're right but I doubt things will be that easy.

Lets take AIG for example. I'm pretty sure that the government 'bail out' isn't meant to save the company from ruin. It was designed so that they could make an orderly withdrawal from the market instead of selling off all their infrastructure at desperation prices.

Are you getting all this information from your company? At this point everything is way too chaotic to make any real accurate predictions. It could flip either way on any small piece of good/bad news now.


I'm just hoping that nothing effects the food supply. An economic downturn is a bummer, but without something akin to the dust bowl we're still WAY off from great depression level poverty.

I'm not getting the information from my company specifically, but from a pretty vast resource of banking representatives and legal depts.

[outsider]

The economy is fucked. Look at it as a chance, maybe once in a lifetime, to get a cheap house.

[iaacp]

I'm 18. I have great interest in buying a house.

[BillyBobRedneck]

I have a grand total of $1900 saved, none of which will be there in a month or two. I also have great interest in buying a house.

[SpiderByte]

I had $6 in my account this morning. But thats because I paid for my tuition and books for school not to long ago.

[iaacp]

Can I buy a house, or a down payment or whatever, with ~$2000?

[MsThang]

Sure, you can buy a $60,000 house in a podunk town in Texas.

[BillyBobRedneck]

Texas is too hot. I want to move to Alaska, its like Texas, but cold.

[TheZenMan]

Buda.

[MsThang]

Hay!

[Kewl]

all your houses are belong to us.:naughty:

[FalseReality]

I always wanted to own a company, never thought it'd be this fast.

But honestly, this is what got me. I couldn't have laughed harder.


His now-famous remark Monday about how "the fundamentals of our economy are strong" would almost by itself be enough to justify my assessment. But he committed what was probably an even worse gaffe on Tuesday when, as the behemoth insurance company AIG (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/American+International+Group+Inc.?tid=informline) teetered on the brink, McCain (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/John+McCain?tid=informline) took a stand. "I do not believe that the American taxpayer should be on the hook for AIG," he said. "We cannot have the taxpayers bail out AIG or anybody else."
Within hours, the federal government had bailed out AIG to the tune of $85 billion. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/18/AR2008091803052.html

And now he is advocating a new agency to determine companies that are at risk of collapsing before they experience any real trouble and bail them out. In times like these, everyone wants to be a populist.

Whichever way the wind blows I guess.

[outsider]

I'm honestly surprised that antitrust laws aren't applied to these corporations that are "to big to fail."

It seems to me that there is obviously a size of a company that is in fact too big.

[HaloGuardian]

The government is taking over the largest and most important industries in this country but it's no big deal.

The reason "they need to be rescued" is the government fucked it up in the first place. FDR created Fanny and Freddie.

Go Team Fascism!

[FalseReality]

The government is taking over the largest and most important industries in this country but it's no big deal.

The reason "they need to be rescued" is the government fucked it up in the first place. FDR created Fanny and Freddie.

Go Team Fascism!
The reason why they're failing, from my understanding is that Greenspan and this administration and the 2000 congress removed regulations that were put in place after the depression. For example, the seperation of regular banks and investment banks; and limits on predatory lending.

Some people believe in a free market economy with no regulation. because they believe that generally, people regulate themselves according to their self-interest. The fact is that people do not act rationally, and sometimes they act in ways that are so self-serving that it is to the detriment not only of themselves but the economy at large. Over lending to people with no means to pay back is just one example.

[HaloGuardian]

The reason why they're failing, from my understanding is that Greenspan and this administration and the 2000 congress removed regulations that were put in place after the depression. For example, the seperation of regular banks and investment banks; and limits on predatory lending.

http://mises.org/story/3098
http://mises.org/story/3111


Some people believe in a free market economy with no regulation. because they believe that generally, people regulate themselves according to their self-interest. The fact is that people do not act rationally, and sometimes they act in ways that are so self-serving that it is to the detriment not only of themselves but the economy at large.

You are exactly making the case against government intervention in the market (and other things). You are correct that many times people do not act rationally and act in their self interest. The problem is that while many people apply their morals to individuals and private businesses they do not apply it to government.

Look at some examples:

Stealing: When the men in suits and badges do it it's ok, when the man in a black mask does it it is robbery.

Murder of innocents: When the men in camoflauge do it they call it an indirect consequence of war, when a man robs a party store and blows the clerks brains out it is murder.

Prison: Put someone in jail for smoking reefer good. Lock up your drunk grandpa in your basement against his will is kidnapping.

Funding terrorists: When the government does it they point out "hindsight is 20/20" "we must fund the enemy of our enemies". When an individual does it they are a terrorist.

There is example after example. People act in their self interest so it is only simple that government officials and workers will act in their self interest. The difference is since they have the badges and guns behind them their act of force against individuals is not only ignored as being criminal, it is encouraged. Individuals don't have this.

What gives the a group who band together and say they are government special priveledges to murder, steal and imprison?



Over lending to people with no means to pay back is just one example.

When the government promises to bail you out for giving bad loans what do you expect? The market will react the way it did which=fail.