Election issues: Energy

[outsider]

Who thinks increasing off-shore drilling will do much to actually reduce either the cost of gas at the pump or our dependence on foreign oil?

[FalseReality]

I just wrote a paper on how McCain and much of the media are misrepresenting Obama's energy and tax plans, and presenting the issues in a way that doesn't show McCain to be a complete fucking retard, which in my humble opinion, is quite impossible.

For example, when Obama simply suggested that a good way to save gas on an individual level was to inflate your tires, the McCain campaign started passing out pressure gauges inscribed with the words, "Obama's energy plan." Yet, both the department of energy and tire experts believe that around 1.6-2.8 billions gallons of gas are wasted through under inflated tires, much more than can ever be expected to be gained from offshore-drilling.

Also, the US Dept of Energy speculates that any change in gas prices due to drilling wouldn't be felt until 2030.

But's it cheap, short simple phrases like drill drill drill that capture the attention of Americans. It doesn't matter if it's right or well thought out, if you can get the average American to believe in it (which isn't too hard), then you're golden.

[fibula]

Wow thats a lot of wasted fuel. I thought everyone knows to keep their tyre pressure right

[TheZenMan]

The tire inflation comment by Obama is akin to dismissing another candidate's Health Care Plan by implying that if everyone would just exercise, eat right and keep healthy, we wouldn't even need Health Care.

It's pretentious and preachy just like his comments on how we can't eat whatever we want, drive our SUVs and keep our thermostats set at 72 degrees.

And as soon as drilling is announced, it would effect the supply and demand cycle and prices would fluctuate. As for being no longer dependent on foreign oil, doubtful.

Canada and Mexico are our top two suppliers. I say invade Mexico and buy Canada.

[FalseReality]

The tire comment was just another way to save gas. Go look at the news of the past 2 years, every article that gives advice about how to save gas says the same thing. It's akin to saying if you want to save money keep it under 70mph.

I don't exactly see how your logic works, when Obama does support off-shore drilling, just in areas with a low risk of damaging the enviroment and beaches that rely on tourism. To be fair, McCain has amended his plan to include investment in energy alternatives, but I doubt that he is as committed to it as someone who proposed the idea ever since the primaries. Besides, McCain has flipped on pretty much every issue so its hard to take what he says seriously anymore.

And I think employers in one state, I think Alabama, are now monitoring the health (specifically weight) of their employees and enact penalties if a person, once warned, does not do something about reducing his risk of getting heart disease, high blood pressure or any of the other diseases an obese person has a greater risk of getting.

It's a preventative measure at the least, but logically, it works. Inflate tires, save gas, save money. Eat right and exercise, reduce your risk of having to go to the hospital, save money.

As for the speculation of oil. Global demand is going to rise in the next few years, no gas company that i know of is investing in building oil refineries in the US. Therefore, to meet the demand of US, which also is climbing, we have to import what we can't make here. And of course, that means that prices are set by OPEC and those foreign governments and companies that provide the oil.

Maybe you know about D Boone Pickens. Even him, a man who made millions in oil has said that "we can't drill our way out of this"
Wind isn't going to be the magic answer either, but his site explains our problem better than I can.
http://www.pickensplan.org/theplan/

[outsider]

The amount of oil we would get from offshore drilling a years is substantially less than the gas that wouldn't be used if people had properly inflated tires. Government expectations are that at best it would lower he cost of gas by 2/10ths of 1 cent and that is relatively optimistic.

It can be likened to health-care though I disagree with how you did. It would be more akin to eating a diet which reduces your chance of getting some diseases thus reducing need for health care, not eliminating it.

[HaloGuardian]

Energy.

I want a candidate who will end all subsidies to oil companies, sell all government owned land above oil to the highest bidder, eliminate all federal taxes on any type of energy, eliminate ethanol subsidies, and eliminate federal laws on energy use.

And on T. Boone Pickens: The man is nothing but another parasite hooked on to the teet of the government. He supports you lining his pockets at gunpoint.

[outsider]

I'm wondering what you mean by laws on energy use.

[HaloGuardian]

laws that force the transition out of certain types of energy, laws that ban certain lightbulbs, etc.

Just thought of another one I read yesterday: There are laws that banned certain wall wart plugs...

[TheZenMan]

Okay, let's just assume Obama is right.

What then? Was everyone just driving around with half inflated tires until he spoke?

Will there be legislation to force people to "properly" inflate their tires?

The point being it's just more thoughtless appeal.

Personally, my fucking tires have been properly inflated since I started driving. And that was before anyone even heard of global warming.

Comments like this and how he dictates what we can eat, drive and keep the temperatures of our homes at are why he's the wrong person for the job.

America isn't that far left, he is.

The sad thing is, all the choices are so fucking shitty that things like this start to sound thoughtful as the masses devolve and we all go a little more brain dead every day.

We do indeed have a problem, but we can inflate our way out of it either.

[FalseReality]

You startoff by saying "let's assume obama is right" and then say "we can't inflate our way out of it". Nice cover.

But nevertheless, Obama did not tell people to infalte their tires as the only solution, he merely said it as advice. The problem is that you, as well as John McCain and Rush Limbaugh, have taken his words and convinced yourself that it was actually part of his energy plan. Go over to Obama's website and read his energy plan, no where does it even mention inflating tires, and no where does it even imply inflating our way out.

Obama, told people to inflate their tires as energy saving advice. You may people one of the people who check your tires, but tire experts and the US Dept of energy have estimated that there millions of people who don't. Is their any harm in getting people to look down at their fucking tires before getting in the car? No. Shit it's worth saying just to make the roads safer.


(4/22/08). The Auto Channel. Retrieved September 16, 2008, from AAA and Partners to Share Gas Saving and Tire Safety Tips With Car Owners Web site: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/04/23/084957.html

"Annual Energy Outlook 2007 With Projections to 2030 ." Energy Information Administration 16 Sep 2008 http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/aeo07/pdf/0383(2007).pdf#page=59 (http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/aeo07/pdf/0383%282007%29.pdf#page=59)

I simply cannot understand why you have such a big fucking problem with harmless advice meant to save people money

[TheZenMan]

I'm beginning to think you may be incapable of having a discussion.

[outsider]

Okay, let's just assume Obama is right.

What then? Was everyone just driving around with half inflated tires until he spoke?

Will there be legislation to force people to "properly" inflate their tires?

The point being it's just more thoughtless appeal.

Personally, my fucking tires have been properly inflated since I started driving. And that was before anyone even heard of global warming.

Comments like this and how he dictates what we can eat, drive and keep the temperatures of our homes at are why he's the wrong person for the job.

America isn't that far left, he is.

The sad thing is, all the choices are so fucking shitty that things like this start to sound thoughtful as the masses devolve and we all go a little more brain dead every day.

We do indeed have a problem, but we can inflate our way out of it either.

I think you are misrepresenting him. I'm not sure if it's an actual accident or on purpose.

He isn't dictating that anyone needs to properly inflate their tires, he is saying if everyone did properly inflate their tires a lot less gas would be used. We'd save more gas than what would be produced in any off-shore drilling plan currently being discussed by McCain.

He isn't dictating what you should eat or what temperature you should keep your house at but if you do complain about global warming or want to make a positive environmental and economic change you will in fact be better off doing those things. That is far different I know you know than trying to make it law.

[TheZenMan]

I think you are misrepresenting him. I'm not sure if it's an actual accident or on purpose.

He isn't dictating that anyone needs to properly inflate their tires, he is saying if everyone did properly inflate their tires a lot less gas would be used. We'd save more gas than what would be produced in any off-shore drilling plan currently being discussed by McCain.

He isn't dictating what you should eat or what temperature you should keep your house at but if you do complain about global warming or want to make a positive environmental and economic change you will in fact be better off doing those things. That is far different I know you know than trying to make it law.

Misrepresenting him on purpose?

I know what he's saying, that's not my point. My point is that he even says that kind of shit in public.

I'm sick of being told how things should be.

My stance on do-gooderism is do it and shut the fuck up. Leave everyone else alone.

[outsider]

So advice you can give but not swallow?

[TheZenMan]

So advice you can give but not swallow?

I'm weird, I expect more from the guy who wants to run the country.

And like I said, my tires are inflated.

[FalseReality]

I'm beginning to think you may be incapable of having a discussion.

I'm beginning to think you don't want a discussion, or just can't carry one. Right, now here you are deflecting.

I also, can't understand why you have a problem with politicans who want to change the way things are. That literally is their job. McCain, Obama doesn't matter who. If the world is not run in a certain way and they think they can change it, they talk about it, to drum up support, to get elected. Democracy in action. You don't like, which obviously you don't, then keep quiet or keep complaining about how fucked up things are, either way I don't care.

Talk ablout the issues ill answer, keep complaining about people talking, about the issues, then what's the point.

[TheZenMan]

I'm beginning to think you don't want a discussion, or just can't carry one. Right, now here you are deflecting.

I also, can't understand why you have a problem with politicans who want to change the way things are. That literally is their job. McCain, Obama doesn't matter who. If the world is not run in a certain way and they think they can change it, they talk about it, to drum up support, to get elected. Democracy in action. You don't like, which obviously you don't, then keep quiet or keep complaining about how fucked up things are, either way I don't care.

Talk ablout the issues ill answer, keep complaining about people talking, about the issues, then what's the point.

See that's the thing, I don't care what you even have to say on the issues. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything.

I am however getting tired of you telling me what other people think and essentially threatening me with links. I don't come here to read the news, I come here to talk.

You've failed to comprehend 100% of what I've even said here. You just sound like an Obama fanatic.

[outsider]

I'm weird, I expect more from the guy who wants to run the country.

And like I said, my tires are inflated.

So you want a candidate with no idea of what you should do or what should be done unless it is something you think they should suggest others do?

You harping on the word should all of a sudden simply doesn't make any sense since every politician uses it in generally the same ways because they think you should vote for them.

[FalseReality]

See that's the thing, I don't care what you even have to say on the issues. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything.

I am however getting tired of you telling me what other people think and essentially threatening me with links. I don't come here to read the news, I come here to talk.

You've failed to comprehend 100% of what I've even said here. You just sound like an Obama fanatic.

Aww the hypocracy, delightful nectar that lifts my heart.

Don't care about what I say on the issues?
Then why have you been responding to my posts, not only in this thread but in others. You come here to talk, but talk about what...pinnapples?

Telling you what other people think. Threatening you with links?
I provided you links because you are obviously ignorant of the great amount of people in America driving on under-inflated tires. I use links for facts, those pesky things you must not bother much with.

Obama fanatic?
I questioned you because you misrepresented what he said, as did others of the media. I'm not supporting Obama, I'm supporting the truth of things. If you said McCain's for racism, I'd argue it. Don't go on apply your labels to me.