With the economy tanking, the war continuing with no end in sight...

[HaloGuardian]

doesn't anyone care about global warming anymore? :fingersx:

[outsider]

I shut up about it after NASA had come out saying that they had been reporting data that hadn't been entered correctly.

I still believe that the more environmentally sound alternatives are better in every way. Use less resources, are cheaper, provide as much energy at least.

I also hate that crap like ethanol is preached about when it's worse than gas.

Also SUVs still suck I laugh that SUV owners have to spend so much to fill up right now and yeah.

[Roguesqd23]

I never cared about it in the first place.

[HaloGuardian]

I still believe that the more environmentally sound alternatives are better in every way. Use less resources, are cheaper, provide as much energy at least.

I also hate that crap like ethanol is preached about when it's worse than gas.

Also SUVs still suck I laugh that SUV owners have to spend so much to fill up right now and yeah.

I agree with all of that. If I had the money to create a house (using solar, wind, or whatever else) completely off the grid I would. It's still extremely expensive and ineffecient to do that right now.

[Roguesqd23]

I shut up about it after NASA had come out saying that they had been reporting data that hadn't been entered correctly.

I still believe that the more environmentally sound alternatives are better in every way. Use less resources, are cheaper, provide as much energy at least.

I also hate that crap like ethanol is preached about when it's worse than gas.

Also SUVs still suck I laugh that SUV owners have to spend so much to fill up right now and yeah.

notice how you don't hear anything from the global warming crowd about the whole ethanol thing. I had thought about getting an E85 car but than found out the stuff is just as much or more than the cheap gas. Glad to see someone bring it up

[outsider]

Ethanol from corn uses more energy than it returns. It makes all other foods go up as water and grain is diverted from other crops or animals to grow corn for ethanol. At the same time our taxes are diverted to subsidize corn crops both in the growing and the selling of it and in some cases a grower can be found in violation of the law if they decide to grow a crop other than corn.

Brazil does a good job with ethanol in that they use sugarcane which is less labor intensive and returns more energy than is put into it to begin with.

So it isn't that ethanol is inherently bad it's how we go about it that is bad.

A good bio-fuel is biodiesel. It's less polluting, recycles what would otherwise be waste and you get more energy out than you put into it. If you are recycling waste oils than you are also saving having to use yet more water in the conversion process.

Solar and wind power while not very cheap on the initial install only have maintenance worries thereafter. If you pay $10000 for solar panels and your monthly electric bill is $150 you won't see a return on your investment for another 5+ years unless you generate more power than you would need and feed it back into the local energy grid in which case it may pay off sooner as the local utility pays you for that extra power. Those are just arbitrary numbers that sound about right for an average household.

All the greenhouse gasses that get spit out around the world are very bad for us even if for whatever reason they aren't trapping heat in the atmosphere. It creates a human health concern and a concern for the planet's ecology which whether or not you care about it directly effects pretty much everything you do. Sick animals fed to humans lead to sick humans. Humans exposed to bad air have health problems. Poorly managed resources lead to conflicts and dead humans

[HaloGuardian]

Solar and wind power while not very cheap on the initial install only have maintenance worries thereafter. If you pay $10000 for solar panels and your monthly electric bill is $150 you won't see a return on your investment for another 5+ years unless you generate more power than you would need and feed it back into the local energy grid in which case it may pay off sooner as the local utility pays you for that extra power. Those are just arbitrary numbers that sound about right for an average household.



I think it would cost more than $10,000 to install enough solar/electric for enough electricity for an entire household in Michigan, but the main reason I would want is because once it is done, you have it and the worries about heating your home are gone. If I just had $500,000 laying around to spend on a house there is no way in hell I would buy a house for $500,000. I'd either find a house or build one and then spend whatever money was neccessary to make it completely energy independent for that total prefferably in a place without property tax (is there such a thing?) and a lot of sun.

[outsider]

You also have to take into consideration inclement weather. Snow for example would handily blanket your solar panels and block it.

[Roguesqd23]

biodiesel is not a bad fuel. But it still cost just as much as reg diesel. I know here in CO we have to have ultra low sulfer diesel. But with Bio I think you have to do some stuff to your engine(not sure). I do not think people right now want to or care to get high milage cars/trucks. Even though people bitch about how much gas costs some are still going to drive the SUV's, trucks and your high powered cars.

One day the US will figure it out and start to drill up in Alaska for oil. There is a lot up there. Just it comes with lots of sand.

[Roguesqd23]

You also have to take into consideration inclement weather. Snow for example would handily blanket your solar panels and block it.

well if they hold heat on the surface the snow might melt off most of the time they are put striaght up and down or at an angle

[outsider]

Yes but with snow conditions and cloud cover you still are not getting many photons from the sun.

[Roguesqd23]

Yes but with snow conditions and cloud cover you still are not getting many photons from the sun.

do the newer panels need that much sun to work right or do they have it down to it just needs light?

[outsider]

Sunlight still makes it through clouds and whatever in the daytime. Just not very much of it. Solar panels aren't the most efficient at capturing and transforming the power.

[TheZenMan]

I care. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120631198956758087.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

[outsider]

The only crops that should be grown for biofuels are soy and hemp. You shouldn't even be eating soy anyways but it's good in industrial uses.

[Roguesqd23]

The only crops that should be grown for biofuels are soy and hemp. You shouldn't even be eating soy anyways but it's good in industrial uses.

Why should you not eat soy? Besides that fact it has no taste. But there are lots of people who enjoy it as a meat substitute.

[outsider]

It's pretty much poisonous for you. It's full of plant estrogens that your body can't very easily process and that damage your body's endocrine function and can damage your thyroid. When feeding it to small children is alters their behavior in the same way that taking estrogen pills would. It is bad for men and women, increases the chance of breast cancer in women by quite a margin. The health issues go on and on but you can do your own research beyond this small bit.

There are ways to process soy so that it isn't unhealthy to eat. Soy sprouts and fermented soy won't do you much wrong for example. There are many better things to eat than meat substitutes. What the hell is the point of being vegan or vegetarian anyways if you still try to keep things that seem like meat in your diet? Go eat an avocado, hemp seeds and some walnuts for your protein.

[HaloGuardian]

^^^Good info. +rep

[Roguesqd23]

never heard that about soy products before. Thanks man

[outsider]

I don't mean to condemn vegetarian or veganism by this either. There are perfectly healthy ways to go about it.