Fault?

[outsider]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/125538.html

Cops break into a guys house with an appropriate warrant. Resident shoots cop for being an intruder and an unannounced cop.

If I was a juror on this trial my verdict would be innocent.

[HaloGuardian]

He killed a burgler and kidnapper. He should be rewarded.

[EternallyIgnorant]

Based on the evidence I'd say not guilty. WHy the hell would he purposely try to kill a cop over some marijuana plants? (which they didnt ever find) It was dark out, and he has no criminal record. Plus he shot the cop in the side, a single time. That to some degree suggests that he did not have a clear view of the guy, and/or he was not going for a fatal shot.

[EternallyIgnorant]

He killed a burgler and kidnapper. He should be rewarded.


Kidnapper? Did I miss something?

[HaloGuardian]

they were going to take him away against his will

[Roguesqd23]

we will see if any if you in here will read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_knock_warrant
no knock warrents. The police did nothing wrong. This guys story is the third one. Guilty this one is. The guy had drugs in his home which is illegal. He did not have what the informate said that he had had but who is to say that he did not get rid of it before hand. Either by selling or some other means. The police did what they had to and were under the law in doing it.

[HaloGuardian]

Is that a good strategy putting the police/SWAT at risk like that?

[Roguesqd23]

Is that a good strategy putting the police/SWAT at risk like that?
It is an effective way to catch criminals off gaurd. This was just a case of it not going the way it should have.

[HaloGuardian]

why did they need to catch him off guard? I think it's stupid and the man was smart and did the right thing in shooting the guy. I hate to sound harsh but that's one less SWAT invading the private lives of Americans who are of no threat to anyone. Maybe they should re-think their policy.

[outsider]

we will see if any if you in here will read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_knock_warrant
no knock warrents. The police did nothing wrong. This guys story is the third one. Guilty this one is. The guy had drugs in his home which is illegal. He did not have what the informate said that he had had but who is to say that he did not get rid of it before hand. Either by selling or some other means. The police did what they had to and were under the law in doing it.


What is the point of owning a gun for self-defense, Roguesqd, if you can't use it when someone is breaking into your house? The police may not have been breaking the law but that does not make this person guilty of murder. You can't just give the police a blank-check to do whatever they want, something you seem to be rather fond of doing. They are there to exercise the law, not to ignore it or invent it. I've seen you complain about activist judges but never activist police. I don't think it is wrong to charge this man with the crime I think it is wrong to convict him of it however.

Arguing in favor of this man's guilt is an argument in favor of abolishing firearms.

[Roguesqd23]

why did they need to catch him off guard? I think it's stupid and the man was smart and did the right thing in shooting the guy. I hate to sound harsh but that's one less SWAT invading the private lives of Americans who are of no threat to anyone. Maybe they should re-think their policy.

The no knock is used to prevent them from dumping the drugs down the drain toilet or other means. The police thought they had crediable cause to go in like they did. Like I said before he could have gotten rid of the drugs he had or the informate was wrong all together. However it sounds like by the story that this guy did grow. Even though he was not a violent threat he was still braking the law.

[iaacp]

yes, we should kill people to show that intruding is rude.

I understand the point of a no knock warrant, but don't see why they would realistically want to use it. I mean, if the warrant is for some guy who is some crazed drugged up motherfucker, and he hears some people randomly trying to knock down the door, chances are the druggie is going to go grab a gun and try and stop it.

I don't think he'd be any less violent if the police did announce themselves, so I don't know. Personally, I don't think he should be convicted, but usually you can be if you aren't on the same means of defense as the attacker.

[outsider]

The no knock is used to prevent them from dumping the drugs down the drain toilet or other means. The police thought they had crediable cause to go in like they did. Like I said before he could have gotten rid of the drugs he had or the informate was wrong all together. However it sounds like by the story that this guy did grow. Even though he was not a violent threat he was still braking the law.


The informant said the drugs were in the garage behind the house. The police report showed that they only found a small amount of marijuana and neighbors and his backyard both maintain he is an avid gardener. You are drawing more from it then is implied. Further, pot plants don't flush down toilets that should be a no brainer. In fact there is no good quick way to get rid of them.

Chances are they guy did NOT grow pot or have anything to do with it other than recreational use which is quite a waste of resources to kick some guys door in for.

Him possessing a small amount of pot does not make him guilty of murdering someone who had kicked in part of his door and entering in the dark. Pot possession and guilt of murder are two seperate clauses and charges for a reason.

[Roguesqd23]

What is the point of owning a gun for self-defense, Roguesqd, if you can't use it when someone is breaking into your house? The police may not have been breaking the law but that does not make this person guilty of murder. You can't just give the police a blank-check to do whatever they want, something you seem to be rather fond of doing. They are there to exercise the law, not to ignore it or invent it. I've seen you complain about activist judges but never activist police. I don't think it is wrong to charge this man with the crime I think it is wrong to convict him of it however.

Arguing in favor of this man's guilt is an argument in favor of abolishing firearms.

you might be right about the murder thing. Manslauter would be a better charge. I will give you that one.
Why would you charge a guy with a crime if you think it is wrong to convict him? I will call out the police if I think they did something wrong. Most of the cases that have come up here have been in favor of me supporting the police with a lot of folks on here bashing me for it. I own a gun myself so I am not for getting rid of gun laws.

[HaloGuardian]

The no knock is used to prevent them from dumping the drugs down the drain toilet or other means. The police thought they had crediable cause to go in like they did. Like I said before he could have gotten rid of the drugs he had or the informate was wrong all together. However it sounds like by the story that this guy did grow. Even though he was not a violent threat he was still braking the law.

Do you support the prohibition of marijuana?

[Roguesqd23]

Do you support the prohibition of marijuana?
It is a drug that is deemed illegal by the folks in power. So yes

[HaloGuardian]

Do you support the prohibition of marijuana?

[Roguesqd23]

The informant said the drugs were in the garage behind the house. The police report showed that they only found a small amount of marijuana and neighbors and his backyard both maintain he is an avid gardener. You are drawing more from it then is implied. Further, pot plants don't flush down toilets that should be a no brainer. In fact there is no good quick way to get rid of them.

Chances are they guy did NOT grow pot or have anything to do with it other than recreational use which is quite a waste of resources to kick some guys door in for.

Him possessing a small amount of pot does not make him guilty of murdering someone who had kicked in part of his door and entering in the dark. Pot possession and guilt of murder are two seperate clauses and charges for a reason.

I am talking about flushing packaged drugs not the plants. I am sure you cant do that. We will have to hear all the facts if we ever do but I will say by just the sound of the story he was not a "grower" like they said. However he did have alot of the stuff the grow.

[outsider]

The warrant was issued because the informant who likely broke into his house said that there were plants and growing equipment.

[Roguesqd23]

we cannot speculate that.