Property tax

[outsider]

Well if I buy land and don't have to pay property taxes there is no good resaon why I can't support myself there. If I have to pay property tax than I have to have an income.

[HaloGuardian]

how do you buy the land without an income?

[outsider]

That's not what I said now is it?

So you have a job, you make money, you pay income on those taxes. You save up money and buy land. Now you go get it all set up and move there. You can sustain yourself without having to have a job or even sell things.

Property tax means you have to keep making income or you get your land taken from you by the state.

Property tax is by and large why opting-out of society is essentially impossible without trespassing at some point.

[...said sadly]

how do you buy the land without an income?
well in the city it would be impossible, but back in the day they did stuff like fishing, hunting, farming, and trade...no one said you could live comfortably, but you could live.

[HaloGuardian]

That's not what I said now is it?

So you have a job, you make money, you pay income on those taxes. You save up money and buy land. Now you go get it all set up and move there. You can sustain yourself without having to have a job or even sell things.

Property tax means you have to keep making income or you get your land taken from you by the state.

Property tax is by and large why opting-out of society is essentially impossible without trespassing at some point.

If that is your point than that is entirely possible now. Someone in a state that has a property tax could save up money and move to a state without property tax. The problem is it's not a realistic scenario because society would not function if everyone bought a piece of land and just sat on it without commerce. People need jobs. Not everyone is capable of saving the money to do so (especially with an income tax), and the government will continue to own them.

Essentially in a state with an income tax you can opt out by not working. You can opt out of property tax by living in a car and parking lots. You can opt out of sales tax by not buying anything. You can opt out of every tax (like gas) by pulling your car with a horse that is fed by the grain you grow in your open trunk.

What exactly does the income tax do? It takes away money from you for doing a physical act. It doesn't take away money for the transition of goods. It doesn't take away money for something you are using of the governments (like a road or a train).

I pay fee's to drive a car. I have to have insurance. I have to buy gas which pays for the roads. My workplace is pays taxes on the the product it buys and sells. What exactly am I doing that is worthy of being taxed?

I mean, I could legally do the same thing I'm doing now for free and I wouldn't have to pay any income tax. You can't say that with sales taxes and fee's.

[outsider]

Not everyone wants to opt out of societ and not everyone wants to be a part of society.

Property tax is rent and nothing more. I shouldn't have to go out of state to not have my land stolen from me. That shoulnd't be a possibility in any state on purchased property.

Income tax takes the place of sales tax. Income tax in many states goes to fire/poilice/wildland services and so on. The same things much of your sales taxes go towards if you have one. It taxes your income either way though I'd assume that in the long run you get taxed less with income tax than with a sales tax. This is why I would never live in California again.

A difference between your sales tax and my income tax is that when there is a surplus I get some of my tax money back. You just get fatter politicians and more government.

What are you doing when you go to work, drive a car and so on? Creating a need for police officers, firemen, ambulances, accountants, municipal administration of the roads, maintenance of public lands.... the list goes on and exists regardless of what you buy.

[HaloGuardian]

Income tax does not take the place of sales tax. Many states have both including Michigan.

And on the latter point that can all be taken care of without an income tax.

[outsider]

Yeah, except with a sales tax you don't get the extra returned to you.