Parental notification for abortion

[Tex]

Just cause you don't feel up to the task doesn't mean it should be left in the hands of the state. You want someone to keep tabs on your daughter because its too much of a chore to handle yourself? Hire a private investigator or something. The last thing we need are more confusing laws and government intervention just cause some people cant be responsible for themselves...

Hey, Dan, why don't you go fuck yourself for putting up these lame little jabs at my parenting abilities and telling me what I should do in such a circumstance if it were to arrise.

I've been a parent, a damn good one, for eight years, and had a great family that raised me, and I'll continue to be a good parent in the future. Sometimes that's not enough, though.

Me, or anybody else for that matter, could be the world's greatest parent, spend countless hours with their children, raise them the very best they could be raised, but it's just a fact of life we can't be with them 24/7 and they just might do things we won't know about or have any knowledge of and that they can easily keep concealed from us.

I don't give a shit how much we are involved in our children's lives, when they walk out that door with their boyfriend or girlfriend they leave with the lessons we taught them, just as my parents taught me, but what they do from that point on is out of our hands, and they just might become pregnant.

The state notifying a minor's parents that their CHILD is going to have a grizzly procedure, one I've personally witnessed, which quite possibly could mind fuck them for the rest of their lives, isn't the state being the parent.

You got it all fucked up. The only way your bullshit argument would make sense is if you're speaking of parents who aren't actively involved in their children's lives and don't give a damn about them.

But for parents who make it a point to be involved in their children's lives to a huge extent, yet their child decides to hide this from them anyway, the state notifying the parents just might save a girl from making a mistake she might regret later. The parents weren't notified because they failed in their parenting responsibilities in some way. The child HID IT FROM THEM ON PURPOSE. That's just a fact of life kids hide things. I did, I'm sure you did, and I'm sure my daughter will from me.

I'm assuming you've never seen women who have had abortions and over time it messed them up to a great degree, them knowing they killed their child. Maybe if you saw what I have and lived through it you'd understand and wouldn't want the same for your daughter, if you have one someday, and you wouldn't want her as a minor to be able to have what possibly could be a life-altering medical procedure.

But, again, go fuck yourself for your comments about my parenting and saying I'm wanting the state to take over. Kids will hide things no matter how involved you are in their lives. In a perfect world what you said makes sense, but we don't live in a utopia. Though, I've heard smoking weed does tend to skew one's perception on things.

[iaacp]

Tex, I could be wrong, but I don't think he was talking about you personally, more like you generally. I agree with you to some extent about how kids will always hide stuff. I can safely admit that if I was sexually active, which I'm not, I wouldn't share it with my parents. Some kids come from more conservative families, and could be embarassed/scared to share some stuff with their families... like drinking, smoking, sex, whatever.

And I don't think pot does anything to Dan's perception of things... he's a really smart dude.

[Tex]

Tex, I could be wrong, but I don't think he was talking about you personally, more like you generally. I agree with you to some extent about how kids will always hide stuff. I can safely admit that if I was sexually active, which I'm not, I wouldn't share it with my parents. Some kids come from more conservative families, and could be embarassed/scared to share some stuff with their families... like drinking, smoking, sex, whatever.

And I don't think pot does anything to Dan's perception of things... he's a really smart dude.

My mistake, then, if he was using the collective "you" as a global term, and my apologies to Dan if that's the case. But I think I read his post exactly as he intended it to be read.

If I'm wrong, then all apologies, Dan, for my comments. But if your post wasn't a generalization about parents and was directed towards me specifically, then it stands.

[outsider]

Why is it the state's job to tell you that your child is pregnant?

You ask how you're supposed to know... well... talking with your child would be a good start! Know who she hangs out with. Know if she's sexually active. Know where she goes and what she does. Watch for changes in personality. Jesus christ man, thats just involved parenting.

My parents talked with the whole family at dinner every night. They watched what I did, and kept tabs on me when I was away. They knew what I was planning to do before I did half the time, simply because they cared and were involved in my life.

Just cause you don't feel up to the task doesn't mean it should be left in the hands of the state. You want someone to keep tabs on your daughter because its too much of a chore to handle yourself? Hire a private investigator or something. The last thing we need are more confusing laws and government intervention just cause some people cant be responsible for themselves...

Because he's a fucking idiot who doesn't want to actually parent. If your daughter is having an abortion you should have been paying far more attention ot the when and where she was going.

I mean I can't be the only one who see the difference in someone before and after they have sex. If your daughter comes home with that glow on her face start fucking asking questions, right? Or should the state also do that for you? If you can't do these things you shouldn't be a parent to begin with. But Dan, I think you get me on this.

I mean it's the same thing as parents expecting the state to be the sole educator and then wondering why little Billy is sticking forks in an electrical outlet or wetting himself when he's 10 years old. Too many parents don't want to be or don't know how to be parents. Parents are supposed to be your friends when you are a teenager.

[Tex]

Because he's a fucking idiot who doesn't want to actually parent. If your daughter is having an abortion you should have been paying far more attention ot the when and where she was going.

I mean I can't be the only one who see the difference in someone before and after they have sex. If your daughter comes home with that glow on her face start fucking asking questions, right? Or should the state also do that for you? If you can't do these things you shouldn't be a parent to begin with. But Dan, I think you get me on this.

I mean it's the same thing as parents expecting the state to be the sole educator and then wondering why little Billy is sticking forks in an electrical outlet or wetting himself when he's 10 years old. Too many parents don't want to be or don't know how to be parents. Parents are supposed to be your friends when you are a teenager.

If this asshole could read my comments he'd see I've explained my position more than once, saying somebody, including myself, could be the best parent in the world and kids could still hide things. Such is life.

But since he has me on ignore he has to make these stupid posts based on tidbits of info other people put up.

Hell, I don't mind being on ignore, but I find it funny he has to make stupid comments to fragments of my post, when if he would have read the whole thing it's obvious his post is a bunch of shit and is contradictory to the position I put forward.

Bah. He's just a fucking asshole. That's all there is to it.

[cursed74]

Wow...it really is fucking amazing that people on these boards who don't even have a clue about raisng kids are all now fucking experts on it and can tell all of us that do have kids how to raise them. Fuck I guess that Dan and Outsider are fucking smart cause they can tell us everything about what its like raising kids today. +rep to the smartest people on earth

[Tex]

Wow...it really is fucking amazing that people on these boards who don't even have a clue about raisng kids are all now fucking experts on it and can tell all of us that do have kids how to raise them. Fuck I guess that Dan and Outsider are fucking smart cause they can tell us everything about what its like raising kids today. +rep to the smartest people on earth

Well said. +rep

[GoodCitizenDan]

I stand by my earlier statement.

If you can't spare enough time to get sufficiently involved in your child's life, it isn't the state's job to pick up the slack. I understand that's not a nice thing to hear, but this world isn't a nice place. Every day it's life or death and every day there are winners and losers.

I'm NOT saying you can shield your kid from every bad decision through good parenting. That simply isn't possible. Not every kid is destined for greatness and sometimes thats hard for parents to accept. Like parents, some kids are just losers their entire lives and parental involvement may only soften the tragedies.

Do I know YOU well enough to know whether or not you're a good parent? No, I don't, and I honestly have no desire to find out. A near-majority of parents(atleast in this country), though, are downright pathetic. Just like in 90% of other areas, it's always someone else's fault. Those kids at school, the video games, the music, the neighborhood, etc etc. NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILTY!!!

Well, guess what? At the end of the day the only person you can rely on is yourself and the only time that matters is the present. You want your child to avoid the same mistakes you made? FINE, do something about it! Not once you finish the big project at work... not whenever you spot warning signs... not when the principal calls about your kid's behavior... fucking NOW! Honestly, if you get a call telling you that your daughter is trying to have an abortion, the moment you should have acted has already come and gone.

I'm sorry if I'm offending you parents out there but this shit needs to be said. There are far too many people out there that simply DO NOT take responsibility for their actions and then expect someone else to bail them out when they fuck everything up. Its pathetic... and the more I think about it, the more this bill appears to represent and endorse that attitude.

[outsider]

Wow...it really is fucking amazing that people on these boards who don't even have a clue about raisng kids are all now fucking experts on it and can tell all of us that do have kids how to raise them. Fuck I guess that Dan and Outsider are fucking smart cause they can tell us everything about what its like raising kids today. +rep to the smartest people on earth

Right, because somehow not having kids means that I can't have an opinion on this. I've dealt with an abortion, it fucking sucked. I don't think people should have them if it can be helped at all (I am still pro-choice). However this is about you NOT raising your kids. If the state is telling you that your daughter is having abortion you already failed at that part of raising your kids.

I mean the only thing you are saying when you mention that I don't have kids or that GCD doesn't have any is that you can't think of an actual argument in favor of your position. You want decisions to be made on gut reactions.

Seriously, don't try to involve the state in my life any more than it already is.

[HaloGuardian]

If you can't spare enough time to get sufficiently involved in your child's life, it isn't the state's job to pick up the slack.

correct.

[TheZenMan]

Bullshit.

My parents we're involved in every aspect of our lives. We just became more underhanded in our dealings and got better at deception. My parents were smart, but so were we.

I have four sisters and there are indeed abortions unknown to this day that took place.
You guys are just being naive if you think this all so very simple as to say, "Well, if you were paying attention to your kid, you'd know whether or not she was pregnant. It's not the state's responsibility"

That's a self righteous and sophomoric stance. Who the fuck are you?
Hang your argument on something other than the-world -according-to-you if you wanna make a point.

Dan made a great one earlier, although it didn't really deal with the present topic, it was on the mark.

Personally I don't think they should notify the parents, I think kids should be able to see to their own life lessons. Some will find pain, others will find peace, it's their lesson.
Karma doesn't give a shit what the state does.

[HaloGuardian]

Karmel does though.

[TheZenMan]

Camels might.

[Tex]

Honestly, if you get a call telling you that your daughter is trying to have an abortion, the moment you should have acted has already come and gone..

You can't act on something that's been kept from you, GCD.

Again, your argument is for the simple minded and isn't based in reality. That is, unless we're dealing with parents who aren't involved in their child's life. Then you make sense.

But for parents that are extremely involved in their child's life, as I am, and will be when this issue could arrise, it has no basis and is just a bunch of rubbish. Kids will hide things, and we as parents aren't mind readers. A woman doesn't show visible signs early in pregnancy, and an abortion could happen without us even knowing if our daughters decide to conceal it from us.

And, also, my comments your way stand, as well. When you become a parent maybe you'll understand. Right now, though, I'd say your experience is a little lacking in all honesty.

[outsider]

Bullshit.

My parents we're involved in every aspect of our lives. We just became more underhanded in our dealings and got better at deception. My parents were smart, but so were we.

I have four sisters and there are indeed abortions unknown to this day that took place.
You guys are just being naive if you think this all so very simple as to say, "Well, if you were paying attention to your kid, you'd know whether or not she was pregnant. It's not the state's responsibility"

That's a self righteous and sophomoric stance. Who the fuck are you?
Hang your argument on something other than the-world -according-to-you if you wanna make a point.

Dan made a great one earlier, although it didn't really deal with the present topic, it was on the mark.

Personally I don't think they should notify the parents, I think kids should be able to see to their own life lessons. Some will find pain, others will find peace, it's their lesson.
Karma doesn't give a shit what the state does.

4 daughters might make it tough. But the month when all of a sudden a lot less tampons or pads are being used should make you wonder what that reason is. Before that you should have stopped trying to plead ignorance.

Either way you want to look at it, it isn't my responsibility to tell you your daughter had an abortion, it isn't Dan's or HG's or George Bush's or Bill Clinton's or anyone's. When you say the state should inform the parents, that is what you are saying.

[cursed74]

well by the logic that i have seen so far in this topic, there should be no drinking, smoking or age of consent either. If somebody has been a good parent then their child will do the right thing every time. Peer pressure will never lead them wrong.

[cursed74]

4 daughters might make it tough. But the month when all of a sudden a lot less tampons or pads are being used should make you wonder what that reason is. Before that you should have stopped trying to plead ignorance.


WTF? How many people do you know count the fucking tampons that their daughter or wife uses. Jesus, you need to wake the fuck up and join us here in the real world where we can't keep track of everything that our kids do.

[Tex]

well by the logic that i have seen so far in this topic, there should be no drinking, smoking or age of consent either. If somebody has been a good parent then their child will do the right thing every time. Peer pressure will never lead them wrong.

Great point. +rep again. I'll be interested to see the responses to this post.

[Tex]

WTF? How many people do you know count the fucking tampons that their daughter or wife uses. Jesus, you need to wake the fuck up and join us here in the real world where we can't keep track of everything that our kids do.

:laugh: That's hilarious. I'll have to remember that when my daughter starts her period. Maybe I should not allow her her privacy and make her come to me everytime she needs a tampon so I can keep close tabs on it. I can start a journal or something. Or I can get real involved in her life and search the trash can.

Oh, but wait. She just might buy them on her own, so that might not work.

[Tex]

Do I know YOU well enough to know whether or not you're a good parent? No, I don't, and I honestly have no desire to find out. A near-majority of parents(atleast in this country), though, are downright pathetic. Just like in 90% of other areas, it's always someone else's fault. Those kids at school, the video games, the music, the neighborhood, etc etc. NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILTY!!!

That's all well and good if you're talking about this 90 percent of shitty parents who don't take an interest in their kid's lives. But what about the good parents, such as myself, who are greatly involved in their children's lives to a great extent?

And, again, she could hide she's pregnant, and there's a good chance I'd never know it, even if I was the world's perfect parent and role model, which I will try my damndest to be.

Like Cursed hinted at, the state won't let my daughter buy booze as a minor. If she's caught with it, after me telling her drinking is bad, as I already tell her, she'll be in deep shit if she gets caught by the cops with it. I taught her the right thing to do, but she did otherwise. The authorities will notify me. Does that mean I'm a bad parent? Bullshit, Dan, and you know it.

What's the difference as far as abortion is concerned? I've seen this mess up a woman's life, and I could probably, if I wanted to take the time, post studies of other women who it's fucked them up royally in the head as they age.

Sorry, but I don't want that happening to my daughter. If the state let me know she was planning this, just as they would notify me if she has booze in her possession, I just might be able to keep her from making a huge mistake.

This utopia you live in sounds like a wonderful place to call home, but it's nowhere near the reality we live in in today's world.