A Deadly Kindness

[Söy]

hmm

[outsider]

No no, they use their crystal ball to tell them who did it.

And isn't nearly 3000 dead Americans extreme enough to wake you up?

Maybe next time they'll kill enough of us to knock you off your moral pedestal.

You're the one on the moral pedestal here. That's why you are seeking gut reactions with your bits about 3000 dead Americans.

[HaloGuardian]

Come on, that's not even close to what I said.


I don't believe them when they say "I didn't do it." That's not good enough for me.

You want them locked up for crimes they supposedly commited. You think they are guilty or harmful until they prove to you that they are innocent. It is exactly what you said. You don't care if they are guilty as long as they are locked up and it makes you feel safer...


In fact it's retarded.

It is retarted that someone who is as smart as yourself to think the government should just be able arrest anyone THEY see fit, lock them up, not actually charge them with a crime, and claim it is all well and good while people argue about flushing a koran. Should other countries be able to barge in here, take out people they claim to be terrorists and lock them up in prisons in their country?


What the hell exactly is your point anyway?

My point is you do not understand the danger of what you are supporting. What limits should the government have or should we just trust them with detainees?

[HaloGuardian]

In a time of war

Wow that is a new one, very creative. We will always have war. War changes the rules. Yes I know, of course it does. The Constitution is now null and void.


I sure as hell do think Islamic extremists caught on the battlefield, or elsewhere, can be detained, and I don't think it's extreme.

1. What makes them extremists?
2. Define the battlefield and elsewhere?
3. Define detaining and what should/shouldn't be allowed?
4. Extreme is in the eye of the beholder



These aren't your common, average, American citizens.

What makes an American average and a citizen?


They're enemy combatants in a war.

No they aren't. This isn't a point of view type thing either. Do you even know the facts?


Why you give a flying fuck about them is beyond me.

Because it could affect me and or you someday.


Also, 202 were released, which shows the ones the government THOUGHT weren't a threat were released.

And how long were they there locked up?


Well, the article you conveniently didn't respond to that I put up shows that our "gut" was wrong at least in those instances. That's an older article, too, and probably the figures are higher as it relates to the people who have returned to fighting against us with terrorist organizations.

I didn't see that article but you obviiously didn't read the article of FACTS not opinion that I posted just by your response.

[HaloGuardian]

You're the one on the moral pedestal here. That's why you are seeking gut reactions with your bits about 3000 dead Americans.

We have a winner.

[TheZenMan]

You want them locked up for crimes they supposedly commited. You think they are guilty or harmful until they prove to you that they are innocent. It is exactly what you said. You don't care if they are guilty as long as they are locked up and it makes you feel safer...



It is retarted that someone who is as smart as yourself to think the government should just be able arrest anyone THEY see fit, lock them up, not actually charge them with a crime, and claim it is all well and good while people argue about flushing a koran. Should other countries be able to barge in here, take out people they claim to be terrorists and lock them up in prisons in their country?



My point is you do not understand the danger of what you are supporting. What limits should the government have or should we just trust them with detainees?

Speaking for myself is not a declaration of what I think the government should do.

"You want them locked up for crimes they supposedly commited."

I never said or implied that, I said I personally don't give a shit about them.

"You think they are guilty or harmful until they prove to you that they are innocent."

I never said this either, I said I don't believe them. Whoopty fucken do! I have an opinion.
I'm not demanding the government hold and torture them until someone can prove to me they didn't do anything. Jesus.

So you tell me, what is it that I'm supporting? I told you, this is an opinion on an opinion piece. You've read so much into just a few words that you feel confident telling me what I feel. That's insane man.

My original comments on the whole article were: "Fascinating." not "This is the truth!" or "Awesome article! Everyone must read!"

I get to use my gut, I'm free to believe what I want. I'm not making laws or holding anyone to the same standards and principals I live by. I read and see things, I make comments.

Just save yourself a bunch of time in the future by saying: "I disagree."

[TheZenMan]

We have a winner.


Right, because there isn't really any substantial evidence that those 2700 or so people died. Not as much as there is to support the fact that our Government likes to hold innocent terror suspects on zero charges just to torture them.

And those deaths really aren't the issue here, what's important is the rights of all the innocent until proven guilty, poor mistreated, suspected terrorists being subject to torture at American hands.

Oh and that I'm just a hating, fearful sheep falling for the neocon lies. That too is of utmost concern.

[outsider]

Right, because there isn't really any substantial evidence that those 2700 or so people died. Not as much as there is to support the fact that our Government likes to hold innocent terror suspects on zero charges just to torture them.

And those deaths really aren't the issue here, what's important is the rights of all the innocent until proven guilty, poor mistreated, suspected terrorists being subject to torture at American hands.

Oh and that I'm just a hating, fearful sheep falling for the neocon lies. That too is of utmost concern.

You're still on your moral pedestal. You are trying to link to things that aren't necessarily related. About 2700 men in or armed services were killed in Iraq, a number I would wish you wouldn't throw around so lightly, many more have had life altering injuries. These people being tortured may or may not have had anything to do with those deaths and injuries.

You are trying repeatedly to link the two. You brain doesn't fucking work. Being locked up doesn't mean that one is guilty of a crime. Being a suspect doesn't mean one is guilty either. Being detained as a terrorist or enemy combatant doesn't meant that the person is any of the above.

The laws of our Constitution apply to all of us and also apply to our prisoners. When you can remove due process for someone you can remove due process for all since due process applies to all. Trying to whittle it away with broken logic is, well, dumb. You're only real argument is that you want to use your gut reaction, call other people retarded, and not read anything that might be in opposition to your feeble viewpoint. Go you :rolleyes:

[Tex]

Still no comment on my article I put up of detainees who were released because they weren't a supposed threat, yet they went right back and fought for their Jihad, and how logic would dicate since the others weren't let go we must have reason to believe they're a threat and that's the reason they're still behind bars. Some of you people I believe have brain damage.

As far as not commenting on the article I put up, I'm truly not surprised. :eyeroll:

[TheZenMan]

Still no comment on my article I put up of detainees who were released because they weren't a supposed threat, yet they went right back and fought for their Jihad, and how logic would dicate since the others weren't let go we must have reason to believe they're a threat and that's the reason they're still behind bars. Some of you people I believe have brain damage.

As far as not commenting on the article I put up, I'm truly not surprised. :eyeroll:

Tex, you don't find the right articles.

Don't feel bad though, I do the same thing. You see, we keep posting lies, we aren't willing to look at the ones which reveal the truth. We see only what we want to see, not like the others. No, no...they see only the truth.

We're frightened sheep.

[Tex]

Tex, you don't find the right articles.

Don't feel bad though, I do the same thing. You see, we keep posting lies, we aren't willing to look at the ones which reveal the truth. We see only what we want to see, not like the others. No, no...they see only the truth.

We're frightened sheep.

So, that's what it is? Damnit! And all along I thought I was using plain old fucking common sense and logic. Bahhhhh.

[TheZenMan]

It's good that we had this talk then.

[Tex]

It's good that we had this talk then.

True you are, TheZenMan.

Hell, Zen, I'z just a stupid redneck from Texas. Maybes I shouldn't enter these discussions with my crazy hick logic and try to debate with such intelergent poeples.

[TheZenMan]

Let's go shoot some faggots.

[Tex]

Let's go shoot some faggots.

:eek3: LOL.

[Söy]

Let's go shoot some faggots.


http://www.movingdigital.com/tonicblue/faggots.jpg

[HaloGuardian]

Still no comment on my article I put up of detainees who were released because they weren't a supposed threat, yet they went right back and fought for their Jihad, and how logic would dicate since the others weren't let go we must have reason to believe they're a threat and that's the reason they're still behind bars. Some of you people I believe have brain damage.

As far as not commenting on the article I put up, I'm truly not surprised. :eyeroll:

Did you even read what I posted? Obviously not. You and Zen were BOTH WRONG about the Guantanamo detainees. It's proven a majority of them have actually commited no crime and no opinion piece will prove or say otherwise. You didn't respond to my post. I've read the article you posted a long time ago. Should we lock up people for crimes they could commit in the future?

[TheZenMan]

Did you even read what I posted? Obviously not. You and Zen were BOTH WRONG about the Guantanamo detainees. It's proven a majority of them have actually commited no crime and no opinion piece will prove or say otherwise. You didn't respond to my post. I've read the article you posted a long time ago. Should we lock up people for crimes they could commit in the future?


Dude come on. Relax and don't take this shit so personal.
I don't think ANYONE claimed this opinion piece was a factual document.

So no one is trying to prove you wrong. I'm not against your issues with all this, it's a nasty no win situation that I'm pretty sure no one is happy about. If anything I'm frustrated with what you keep insisting I mean when I say something. I'm speaking from the heart about what's happening to our world right now. I'm aggravated to no end by every aspect of this shit. It's feels like you're more about how wrong we are (the US) than concerned with a genuine threat to our way of life.

I'm shocked by how easily you give the benefit of the doubt to the enemy. Accused, suspected, or whatever you need to call them. Someone did it, someone is responsible, groups of someones. Do I know who they are? No. But there is definitely people responsible for the deaths of many Americans. That's a fact.

You seem more offended by your own government than those who wish to kill us all.
If I'm wrong, then please confirm that. I'd love to be wrong on this one.

[HaloGuardian]

I never said this either, I said I don't believe them. Whoopty fucken do! I have an opinion.
I'm not demanding the government hold and torture them until someone can prove to me they didn't do anything. Jesus.

No you are not, but you also aren't saying the government should not do that either. And from what it sounds like from it wouldn't bother you if they were tortured, if they were ripped apart and beaten to death because this is quoting you WORD FOR WORD: "I said I personally don't give a shit about them."


So you tell me, what is it that I'm supporting? I told you, this is an opinion on an opinion piece. You've read so much into just a few words that you feel confident telling me what I feel. That's insane man.

I want to know the limits to what you think is wrong in relation to the government. You won't give them to me. I don't want to hear your moral relativism bullshit relating to 3000 dead Americans. If I want to hear that I'll watch fox news or listen to Rush Limbaugh. I've been told that I say the US is wrong all the time, well are you willing to say when they are wrong even once?


My original comments on the whole article were: "Fascinating." not "This is the truth!" or "Awesome article! Everyone must read!"

I get to use my gut, I'm free to believe what I want. I'm not making laws or holding anyone to the same standards and principals I live by. I read and see things, I make comments.

I do as well, which is why I responded originally and why I'm responding to this post.


Just save yourself a bunch of time in the future by saying: "I disagree."

You were factually wrong in your earlier post in suggesting that


I think that's absurd to no end, as it is, they fucking behead their prisoners, torture them with power drills, and force them to convert to their faith at gunpoint. They don't play by the Marquis of Queensberry Rules here.

These are not the people in Guantanamo. If you would actually research it and find out and stop arguing for a false cause you would understand this.

Good day sir.

[TheZenMan]

No you are not, but you also aren't saying the government should not do that either. And from what it sounds like from it wouldn't bother you if they were tortured, if they were ripped apart and beaten to death because this is quoting you WORD FOR WORD: "I said I personally don't give a shit about them."



I want to know the limits to what you think is wrong in relation to the government. You won't give them to me. I don't want to hear your moral relativism bullshit relating to 3000 dead Americans. If I want to hear that I'll watch fox news or listen to Rush Limbaugh. I've been told that I say the US is wrong all the time, well are you willing to say when they are wrong even once?



I do as well, which is why I responded originally and why I'm responding to this post.



You were factually wrong in your earlier post in suggesting that



These are not the people in Guantanamo. If you would actually research it and find out and stop arguing for a false cause you would understand this.

Good day sir.


Sounds like you have all your answers then.