Clinton: CYA?

[outsider]

Guess who just happen to be president in the years leading up to it?


Draw all the parallels you need to, I'm simply saying this isn't about Clinton, at all.

It's about the threat, the real threat. Which is NOT Clinton. If someone wants to link and conclude blame, more power to them, but it's a moot point.

OK, so it isn't about Clinton... Then why say to guess who was President beforehand?
http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/

I'm not saying it's Bush's fault (Jr. or Sr.) but some of what I've seen in this thread is on a lower plane of thought than any 5 year old. I won't blame any one person but I will blame American foreign policy for the last 70 some odd years as well as Islamic, Christian, and Judaic extremism.

[TheZenMan]

If you don't get why I said that, then there's nothing I can do to enlighten you.

Aren't you the facts guy?

Isn't it a fact that Clinton was in office during the time timeline of the film?

If I make a movie about summertime, are high temperatures to blame for the events of the film, or are high temperature simply a consequence of summertime?

Personally, I think Clinton is a waste of oxygen. So what?
That doesn't mean he's the target of this docu-drama which is essentially a creative expression. What don't you get about that?

To me, it's a revealing look at Clinton within the context of how he's responding to this.
What's my opinion worth to you?

[outsider]

Is Clinton responding to it or are his administrative staff responding to it? Will you deny that there is a political bent to this docu-drama to lay blame on Clinton in ways that he isn't actually guilty of? I'm really not trying to defend Clinton here, he had a silver tongue but not much else redeemable about him. The fact is that this docu-drama is built on a series of flat out lies conveniently enough so you stop paying attention to other lies.

If I were to make some fantastic story about Bush Sr. or Reagan that was essentially a long lie I'd hope people would have something to say about it.


Aren't you supposed to be the truth and peace guy?

[TheZenMan]

Is Clinton responding to it or are his administrative staff responding to it? Will you deny that there is a political bent to this docu-drama to lay blame on Clinton in ways that he isn't actually guilty of? I'm really not trying to defend Clinton here, he had a silver tongue but not much else redeemable about him. The fact is that this docu-drama is built on a series of flat out lies conveniently enough so you stop paying attention to other lies.

If I were to make some fantastic story about Bush Sr. or Reagan that was essentially a long lie I'd hope people would have something to say about it.


Aren't you supposed to be the truth and peace guy?

I have no vested interest in what this film is bent on. What is just is.
Truth doesn't need a movie or an administration, or me to speak for or against it.
It stands independent of all notions and opinions.

Make no mistakes, that is not my declaration that this movie containts truth. If you can discern truth from not truth, then you're a better man than I.

Your take on it being a distraction from other lies is yours to see to. Again, I can't tell just by looking, researching or analyzing what the truth is. If it is, then it is. What you or I think is just that, our opinions.

And I'm only the peace and truth guy to the degree that I believe they exist.
I don't buy causality as a source of reality, therefor I have no use for credit or blame.

My question is, why all the fuss? It's a freaking TV mini-series for Godsake. What's the real difference between Clinton's response and Clinton's Administrative Staff's response?
In the eyes of the public, they may as well be one and the same.

Again my point: This isn't about Clinton. There is indeed a truth here.
So regardless of what the creators intended to portray, if it's the truth, it just is. And if it's not, then it's true that it's not. Come to your own conclusion.

[TheZenMan]

Anybody watch part one last night?



Oh and before we get too far ahead of ourselves let's establish the fact that:

Girls watch TV. :kekekegay

[GoodCitizenDan]

It's about the threat, the real threat. Which is NOT Clinton.

....and the threat to us is? Terrorists?




I originally had a couple of paragraphs here, but screw it. It isn't worth the effort. You guys can believe whatever you want. I think I might just stay out of the political forums entirely from now on...

[fibula]

I am Clin-Ton. As overlord, all will kneel trembling before me and obey my brutal commands. End communication.

[TheZenMan]

....and the threat to us is? Terrorists?




I originally had a couple of paragraphs here, but screw it. It isn't worth the effort. You guys can believe whatever you want. I think I might just stay out of the political forums entirely from now on...


Such a small sentence pissed you off that much? Sheesh.

So....terrorists aren't the threat then?

It's not zombies is it? I hate those.

[MsThang]

Such a small sentence pissed you off that much? Sheesh.

So....terrorists aren't the threat then?

It's not zombies is it? I hate those.

It's not the zombies fault. What came before the zombies?

[GoodCitizenDan]

Such a small sentence pissed you off that much? Sheesh.

So....terrorists aren't the threat then?

It's not zombies is it? I hate those.

No, not the small sentence, the general attitude that I see everywhere.

There was a time american's proudly adhered to a 'live free or die" policy. These days the majority of americans would let the government install a lo-jack in their ass if they were told it would make them 'safer', when the safety they seek is an abstract concept at best. They spend 6+ hours a day listening to the TV tell them what to think and want and feel, and never take a second to question why. Its simply pathetic.

I always thought conversation was the way out of this hole. I thought truth would be obvious, and it is, but everyone would rather live in their own fantasy world eating mcDonalds and watching TV pundits that always agree with them so they can carry on their self-delusion.

Fuck it. Tell yourself that preventing terrorist attacks is the most important thing we have to deal with. Keep telling yourself that losing 2,500+ american servicemen in Iraq is somehow making reparation for the 3,000 civilians that died on september 11th. Keep telling yourself that having your shoes x-rayed before boarding a flight is somehow keeping the big mean terrorists away. I'm done trying to help.

Go listen to your favorite pundit tell you how the world is(n't). Feel secure in knowing that anything contradicting your world-view has been filtered out in favor of pure (dis)information.

I'm just so tired of the ignorance....
(I should note that this isn't really directed at Zen, but americans in general, as was the post he responded to.)

[TheZenMan]

No, not the small sentence, the general attitude that I see everywhere.

There was a time american's proudly adhered to a 'live free or die" policy. These days the majority of americans would let the government install a lo-jack in their ass if they were told it would make them 'safer', when the safety they seek is an abstract concept at best. They spend 6+ hours a day listening to the TV tell them what to think and want and feel, and never take a second to question why. Its simply pathetic.

I always thought conversation was the way out of this hole. I thought truth would be obvious, and it is, but everyone would rather live in their own fantasy world eating mcDonalds and watching TV pundits that always agree with them so they can carry on their self-delusion.

Fuck it. Tell yourself that preventing terrorist attacks is the most important thing we have to deal with. Keep telling yourself that losing 2,500+ american servicemen in Iraq is somehow making reparation for the 3,000 civilians that died on september 11th. Keep telling yourself that having your shoes x-rayed before boarding a flight is somehow keeping the big mean terrorists away. I'm done trying to help.

Go listen to your favorite pundit tell you how the world is(n't). Feel secure in knowing that anything contradicting your world-view has been filtered out in favor of pure (dis)information.

I'm just so tired of the ignorance....
(I should note that this isn't really directed at Zen, but americans in general, as was the post he responded to.)


So it's not zombies then.

Who may I ask is the threat sir?

The speech was nice and all, but since I've never had my shoes X-rayed and watch very little TV, I'm gona need some more specifics in order to avoid falling for all the lies.

Do go on.

And yes, I know it's not personal, nor is my inquiry. If you have some insights, share them.

[TheZenMan]

It's not the zombies fault. What came before the zombies?


Before the zombies?

Why Umbrella Corporation of course. Don't be silly!

[GoodCitizenDan]

So it's not zombies then.

Who may I ask is the threat sir?

The speech was nice and all, but since I've never had my shoes X-rayed and watch very little TV, I'm gona need some more specifics in order to avoid falling for all the lies.

Do go on.

And yes, I know it's not personal, nor is my inquiry. If you have some insights, share them.

Complacency and ignorance are the enemies.

I've grown tired of combating them in others. Take care of yourselves and I'll take care of myself and my own. I'm done taking responsibility for the teaming masses yearning to breathe free(of thought).

[TheZenMan]

Complacency and ignorance are the enemies.

I've grown tired of combating them in others. Take care of yourselves and I'll take care of myself and my own. I'm done taking responsibility for the teaming masses yearning to breathe free(of thought).


Okay then, so if everyone on earth ceased to be complacent and ignorant, all would be at peace.

I agree.

So back to the question. Who is the threat? Or are you telling me there isn't one?
You seemed to take issue with the fact that I implied we had one, and further insinuated that it was the terrorists.

Since you called me on it, I just figured you had something to offer. Am I wrong...again?

[outsider]

ZenMan, who are the threats?

[TheZenMan]

ZenMan, who are the threats?


Oh I don't know...perhaps people who attack Americans?

If you're asking for a prophetic prediction, I can't help you. I can only logically deduce from past events and conclude what I have.

I call them terrorists though. Does that help?

[outsider]

So you are saying that terrorists are the threat to America?

[TheZenMan]

So you are saying that terrorists are the threat to America?


You win!

[GoodCitizenDan]

Okay then, so if everyone on earth ceased to be complacent and ignorant, all would be at peace.

I agree.

So back to the question. Who is the threat? Or are you telling me there isn't one?
You seemed to take issue with the fact that I implied we had one, and further insinuated that it was the terrorists.

Since you called me on it, I just figured you had something to offer. Am I wrong...again?

Sure... I'll bite... even though I AM trying not to get into it...

3,030 people died on 9/11 in the terrorist attacks
2,666 american servicemen died 'liberating' iraq
One of those was preventable.

Our government is the real threat. Checks and balances are being removed left and right in the names of expedience and 'safety'. Government power is expanded and their control over your life tightens, but are you really any safer?

I'm sure nobody wants to hear this, and I hate saying it, but I would gladly sacrifice 3,030 more lives just to reclaim the nations status(civil liberties/check and balances/economics to a lessor extent) before bush took office. Hell, if I knew that I could free the government of all the self-serving politicians by doing so, I'd gladly sacrifice 10,000 lives, mine included.

Its all a crock of shit. The government is alot like an ad agency. Think about it...
You see a commercial, and suddenly you can't live without something you didn't know existed 20 seconds ago.
Well, the government is the same thing. They most closely resemble the pharmeceutical commercials in nature, scare and prepare, with a large list of potential side effects...

civilians: "OOOOooooOOOOoooHHHH!!! Terrorists!
Government: "Don't worry, we just came up with a solution!"
-NOTE: Side effects may include, loss of civil liberties, loss of privacy, loss of right to trial, possibility of torture, may alienate all allies, etc etc....-
-Secondary note: Any actual safety you experience is purely coincidental-

They manufacture the need, and you all buy the product, and ya keep coming back for more.

Of course, I'm oversimplifying to try and make it understandable/relatable.
Anyway, like I said, I just don't care any more. It seems the people will always be fooled because they WANT to be fooled.

Hell, why not? Ignorance is bliss after all....

[outsider]

You win!

No, keep going. I want to flesh out these ghastly terms you want to use in such a sublime manner.

Are terrorists the threat to America?

If so define who/what a terrorist is.