View of UK MP on Lebanese Crisis

[HaloGuardian]

What?

You don't have to take a side.

When I watch a Red Sox v. Yankess game I cheer for None of the Above...

[TheZenMan]

I posted one a while back about the doctored photos.

And I don't care to have you fill in the blanks. With all due respect, who the fuck are you?
I don't trust the media, why should I take your input as truth?

Keep in mind one thing, I'm not labeling all Lebanese as Hezbollah. There is a distinct difference. And don't tell me you don't become reptilian when dealing with reptiles. There isn't another option.

Come to kill me, and I'll do my best to kill you first. That's a primal function of the ego, and I still have one.

Let's just say we strongly disagree on this topic. There's no good to come from our own little personal link war. Do what you feel is right, and know that I'm doing the same.

[TheZenMan]

You don't have to take a side.

When I watch a Red Sox v. Yankess game I cheer for None of the Above...

Then you're a far more enlightened man than I. God bless you all the more for it.

[outsider]

I posted one a while back about the doctored photos.

And I don't care to have you fill in the blanks. With all due respect, who the fuck are you?
I don't trust the media, why should I take your input as truth?

Keep in mind one thing, I'm not labeling all Lebanese as Hezbollah. There is a distinct difference. And don't tell me you don't become reptilian when dealing with reptiles. There isn't another option.

Come to kill me, and I'll do my best to kill you first. That's a primal function of the ego, and I still have one.

Let's just say we strongly disagree on this topic. There's no good to come from our own little personal link war. Do what you feel is right, and know that I'm doing the same.

You trust something enough for you to feel informed enough to pronounce your opinion. Who the fuck am I? I'm someone who spends too much free time reading everything I can. Who the fuck are you? You remarks about reptiles really have a smaller place here than you seem to think. Israel has been attacking Lebanon for over 20 years in some form or other. So is Israel being reptilian in response or vice-versa? But you made your choice and since you don't trust the media at all I'm assuming you must be aware it's an illinformed choice.

[TheZenMan]

You trust something enough for you to feel informed enough to pronounce your opinion. Who the fuck am I? I'm someone who spends too much free time reading everything I can. Who the fuck are you? You remarks about reptiles really have a smaller place here than you seem to think. Israel has been attacking Lebanon for over 20 years in some form or other. So is Israel being reptilian in response or vice-versa? But you made your choice and since you don't trust the media at all I'm assuming you must be aware it's an illinformed choice.

I'm giving you an opinion here.

If you don't care for it, then I can cease to do so. I don't care if you agree with me and I don't care to prove I'm right. My view is as stated, you don't have to accept it.

I'm glad you read a lot and I'm glad you're so confident of what you determine from it.

But don't take offense if I don't agree. Like I said, do what you must and I'll do the same.
We don't have to agree.

And yes, Israel is behaving like a reptile, they're just the reptile I would be.
I'd be a bigger, meaner reptile in every aspect. The world isn't ready for peace yet, we're not done with the lower levels. We can't skip steps and people are going to die.

I'm sorry for each and every loss on both sides of every single human conflict in our history. This is just how I see it.

If I'm ill-aligned, I'll find out in due time. I hope I'm wrong, I've had it with all this shit.
But I'm not gona distrust my own instincts, not even for the facts as they're presented by the media.

[outsider]

I want you to question the sources that help guide your opinion. I want to be able to discuss facts of the matter more than opinions that don't tend to take facts into account. If I were prone to those sorts of discussions I'd say the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese.

Now certainly your opinion isn't as far fetched as those but they have the same root and sadly that root is something too few seem willing to strike at. Until more people do strike at it fewer and fewer people will gain more and more despotic power behind the guise of an ever-lasting war.

[TheZenMan]

I want you to question the sources that help guide your opinion. I want to be able to discuss facts of the matter more than opinions that don't tend to take facts into account. If I were prone to those sorts of discussions I'd say the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese.

Now certainly your opinion isn't as far fetched as those but they have the same root and sadly that root is something too few seem willing to strike at. Until more people do strike at it fewer and fewer people will gain more and more despotic power behind the guise of an ever-lasting war.

I can't give you what you want because no matter how factual we consider our opinions to be, they're still just opinions.

Facts of the matter are a matter of opinion.

Suffice it to say, I once again have to disagree.
We're way off topic here now anyway, so you trust your sources and I'll see to mine.

[HaloGuardian]

Wrong. I see Man A kill Man B. That isn't an opinion Man A killed Man B. It is a fact.

[TheZenMan]

Wrong. I see Man A kill Man B. That isn't an opinion Man A killed Man B. It is a fact.

This isn't science though.
Man A killing Man B = content. Fine.

But what about context?

Why did it occur? What were Man A's intentions?
Does Man A killing Man B automatically prove Man B didn't request his own death?
Does it determine who is in the wrong and who is in the right? In and of itself it's just a linear event.

Using just one example:

Man A & B are Samurai. Man B has disgraced himself in battle and believes he is honoring the code he lives by to the highest degree by requesting that Man A executes him. Man A feels he is honoring his friend by making his request a reality.

This isn't a moral issue, it's just one of a potentially infinite set of conditions which determine context. Nothing is just about content, it's always about content within context.

Context is a subjective experience, therefor a matter of opinion. Content alone may be factual, but it's not even half of the story.

This situation may adhere to mathematical laws, such as content, but it's not limited to nor completed by such radical linear deduction.

Then there is the "fact" that you saw it. Did everyone else see it?
It's now your word against everyone else's.

Why should people take your word for it?

[HaloGuardian]

But if you don't research the content, you won't understand the context.

[outsider]

But if you don't research the content, you won't understand the context.

and vice-versa.

[HaloGuardian]

Then there is the "fact" that you saw it. Did everyone else see it?
It's now your word against everyone else's.

Why should people take your word for it?

They shouldn't take my word, but that doesn't take away that it was a fact that man A killed man B.

[TheZenMan]

But if you don't research the content, you won't understand the context.

Wrong.

Context is the capacity in which content occurs. Not the other way around.

I'm not telling you research has no value, just that it's limited.

[TheZenMan]

They shouldn't take my word, but that doesn't take away that it was a fact that man A killed man B.

Yes, I realize that.

But now you have to report what you saw. It's again subjective to those you present it to.
And honestly, seeing it happen doesn't mean you know what happened.

Only that you saw an event.

[HaloGuardian]

Wrong.

Context is the capacity in which content occurs. Not the other way around.

I'm not telling you research has no value, just that it's limited.

If the facts (Content) are wrong, then you will not have any grasp at all of the context.

[HaloGuardian]

Yes, I realize that.

But now you have to report what you saw. It's again subjective to those you present it to.
And honestly, seeing it happen doesn't mean you know what happened.

Only that you saw an event.
But that still doesn't take away that it was a fact. Someone who wasn't there could lie and say it didn't happen, and in a court of law man A could be determined to be Not-Guilty of killing man B. That doesn't mean he didn't do it.

[HaloGuardian]

I'm going to bed, goodnight...

[TheZenMan]

If the facts (Content) are wrong, then you will not have any grasp at all of the context.

Yes, I get that.

But if you look only at content, you're speculating about the context.
You're making it up. No matter how much research you do, you will never have the experience, and therefore the context.

So facts become opinion, in context.
Mathematically they're factual and accurate. The power of science is it's ability to be objective and remove the subjective aspect of the individual.

But to perceive those objective results requires one's own subjectivity, so we end up with interpreted "facts" which have again amounted to opinions.

2+2 = 4
That's an objective truth. But your capacity to comprehend this truth is purely subjective.
There are many well meaning math students who answer this one incorrectly every day.

Can you determine whether or not they meant to from their test score?

[TheZenMan]

But that still doesn't take away that it was a fact. Someone who wasn't there could lie and say it didn't happen, and in a court of law man A could be determined to be Not-Guilty of killing man B. That doesn't mean he didn't do it.

There you have it.

A fact requires proof. If you can't prove it, you can't call it a fact.

Even if you know it's true, it becomes an opinion because no one can be you.

Don't mistake truth for facts.

[outsider]

Bullshit. A fact is a fact anyway you cut it spin it or avoid it.