Breaking News: Bin-Laden wins war on Terror.

[Tex]

it's remarkable how inconsistent this sentence is with your stance regarding guantanamo detainees (discussed in another thread). rather than requiring strict evidence in those cases, you were more than happy to trust (in the absence of any evidence), that the administration had properly adjudged all of the detainees' guilt and innocence correctly.

Well, I'm glad you found it "remarkable," but "inconsistent" isn't the word I'd choose to describe my position. Also, we're talking apples and oranges here.

I've stated before -- I think in the thread you're bringing up -- that people could call me an asshole, but I really don't give a flying shit about gitmo detainees, or words to that affect. Sure, it would be nice if they could have their day in court; but if that happens, or not, is no issue I really care about.

I also said, since you're going to be a lawyer, if you care so much about the poor, innocent Muslims housed there, go fight for their rights. At least, I think that's the thread you're bringing up. They don't concern me.

The Waco incident happened in my home state of Texas, I followed it closely, and that does interest me, including all the legalities of it -- being that I am a reporter--and even the looney conspiracy theories surrounding it. The same with 9-11.

Those events the evidence has already been laid on the table. The gitmo situation is a different ballgame altogether, and you know that. The whole argument there is for them to have their day in court.

[outsider]

The argument in any of these cases is the legal protections afforded to people in this country and yes, people detained by this country, by the Constitution of the United States of America.

[Tex]

I have a question for ya, Tex. What do you think Osama's goal IS?

Obviously, killing people isn't the goal, but simply a means to an end. That holds true for any war. So what is the underlying goal in a terrorist attack?

I know what my answer would be, but I'm curious as to what yours would be.

Hell, I could probably write a boatload on that, GCD. I have to get up at 7:00 a.m. for a deposition, so I'll try and keep it short. But knowing me that won't happen. :hsugh:

A little history on this mess first. When Iraq invaded Kuwait Osama went to the Saudis and wanted, just like in Afghanistan, to bring his "jihad" to Kuwait and push the Iraqis back into their borders. He was a hero to countless Muslims, and he wanted another fight.

He was basically told to fuck off by the Saudis, and instead they took help from the Americans. From all I've read on the internet, heard in documentaries, and read in books from people who've studied this asshole, that was one of the biggest blows to Osama that really made him at that point start to hate the United States. Fatwas starting coming after that point declaring war on the United States and the ball got rolling and attacks started occurring.

He saw Americans in Saudi Arabia as modern day Christian Crusaders. He already didn't like us for our support of Israel. But our troops walking on what he considers his holy land burnt him to no end. Not to mention the Saudis turing their backs on him. Then we go into Iraq, which just added fuel to the fire.

Anyway, I'm rambling on because I'm tired. But that brings us to his goal. He wants us to stop supporting Israel and to not be a presence in the Middle East. There's more to it, but that basically sums it up. He wants our troops off their land, out of Iraq, and on ships back to the "evil West."

The purpose of his attacks, at least my opinion, supported by others, is to instill fear in the American people to accomplish his goal of getting us out of the Middle East and to cut the umbilical cord with Israel.

He saw what happened in Somalia, and elsewhere, and from what I've read it's why he sees us as cowards, that when push comes to shove we'll bail, and it's why our government is so adamant about not cutting and running in Iraq. He believes he can make that happen through terrorist attacks. It's just a mindfuck basically. Like you said, a means to an end.

Now, I don't buy this shit of he wants to destroy the west that Sean Hannity, that Bush dicklicker, spews all the time, along with a few others. I think even Osama's not crazy enough to believe he could do that.

But he does want to turn American public opinion against the government to pressure it to "cut and run," just like is happening now as it relates to Iraq. Now, that might happen. But I highly doubt we'll ever stop supporting Israel. He'll never achieve his goals IMO.

Anyway, like I said, I'm rambling on because I'm tired. And I said I'd keep it short. There's more to it, but that's my opinion in a nutshell.

[Tex]

I'd say if anything people are far easier to control today with the dependency on sound bites and talking points. People don't fucking read like they used to anymore, we want our news like we want our food. Fast, bland and full of shit.

Man, that's a whopper if I've ever seen you drop one.

[outsider]

Really? Sure is easy for you to brush off without actually digesting ANYTHING. But it's like I said about how American's want their news and anything else really.

Why do people sit and drool at the TV as pundits sit in Spin Alley after debates? Deception Boulevard a little to forward a name? Why with all the shit out there do we give a fucking rats ass about Brad Pitt's daughter and whatever other media sensation has hit the waves?

Oh right, that short tv fueled attention span.

[outsider]

It is after all what our education system is set up to do. To churn out greased cogs in our society. It isn't to teach people how to think or why to think, not even to teach them what to think.

Just to prepare them to be a manager's monkey.

[TheZenMan]

It is after all what our education system is set up to do. To churn out greased cogs in our society. It isn't to teach people how to think or why to think, not even to teach them what to think.

Just to prepare them to be a manager's monkey.

So...did you learn that in our education system?

[chunkreloaded]

It is after all what our education system is set up to do. To churn out greased cogs in our society. It isn't to teach people how to think or why to think, not even to teach them what to think.

Just to prepare them to be a manager's monkey.

"here's your 50 grand a year...have a miserable life."

[outsider]

So...did you learn that in our education system?

I went to public schools. I could read before I went to kindergarten and I got detention for writing in cursive in second grade and for reading The Hobbit in third grade. I was never taught long division in any grade. In high school I constantly had problems with the administrative staff who barred me from classes that I should have been allowed into. In every school I went to I was one of the schools top performers. I learned outside of school because I like learning.

So the question you would actually want to ask me is what did I learn in public education.

[Team Brian GB]

Terror alert: Blair to force through 90-day detention

BRIAN BRADY AND EDDIE BARNES

TONY Blair is planning to push through 90-day detention without charge for terror suspects following the alleged plot to murder thousands of airline passengers by blowing their jets out of the sky.

Senior ministers believe public concern about terrorism is now at such a level that they will be able to reintroduce the controversial detention powers, which were rejected in favour of a 28-day limit following the 7/7 attacks.

A senior government source confirmed that Blair, Chancellor Gordon Brown and Home Secretary John Reid all believed that the UK's apparently narrow escape from a major disaster proved the case for a clamp-down on "the enemy within".

The source said: "It is one of the few things that Brown, Blair and Reid can agree on."

The 90-day proposal - rejected following a humiliating rebellion by Labour MPs last November - is expected to form the centrepiece of further anti-terror powers to be included in the Queen's Speech this autumn.

The uncompromising response to the growing threat came as it emerged that the ban on hand luggage on British aircraft is set to continue indefinitely, and could be bolstered by stringent new security screening at all the nation's airports.

Britain remained on its highest state of terror alert last night as detectives continued to question more than 20 suspects over the alleged plot to bring down airliners by using liquid explosives.

As UK detectives interrogated suspects seized in Thursday's dawn raids, officials in Pakistan arrested British-born Rashid Rauf, saying his detention and that of others in the country had "triggered" the raids in London, Birmingham and High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire.

But suggestions that the government was ready to return to the fray over 90-day detention have been greeted with horror by opponents, who claim the original drive to extend police powers was a draconian attack on human rights.

David Winnick, the veteran Labour MP who put forward the 28-day "compromise" limit agreed by Parliament last year, said the move would be "totally unjustified", but added that he fully expected ministers to use the latest terror scare to push for a longer period.
He told Scotland on Sunday: "Under no circumstances should they be allowed to raise the limit. My view remains that if the police have got evidence they should charge.

"Going back only a few years ago, police had just two or three days to release or charge suspects and that figure has repeatedly been increased by Parliament with little opposition.

"The danger is that by increasing it steadily, you get up to 90 days and then people will start saying 90 days isn't enough."

A spokeswoman for human-rights watchdog Liberty warned that the government should not try to "legislate its way to safety".
She added: "The doubling of the detention limit - from 14 days to 28 - only took effect last month. We should be observing how satisfactory that is before rushing off and demanding a higher limit."

Former home secretary Charles Clarke argued that the 90-day proposal, put forward by the police, was required to help them carry out the enormous and meticulous counter-terror investigations demanded by the modern threats.

But the plan was rejected by 49 Labour MPs, who helped deliver Blair's first Commons defeat as leader.

Clarke hinted earlier this year that he had not given up hope that the 90-day limit would feature in future government proposals when he confirmed plans to produce another Terrorism Bill next year or in 2008.

The momentum gathered last month, when a report from the MPs' Home Affairs Committee concluded that the number and scope of investigations, and the requirement to move in to make arrests at an earlier stage meant the 28-day limit would have to be extended at some stage.

Brown has publicly stated his support for extending police powers to detain without charge, although he insists that there must be "safeguards" in place to ensure suspects are not unfairly imprisoned.
Government aides last night claimed that the scale of the alleged bomb plot reinforces their repeated warnings about the threat facing the country. Communities and Local Government Secretary Ruth Kelly will attempt to improve co-operation with British Muslims through a renewed "roadshow" tomorrow.

But more senior colleagues in the Cabinet are considering a less conciliatory response to the threat.

"We are concentrating on the threat which is in front of us right now," a Home Office source said last night.

"But there is a consensus about what we require to tackle this threat. The government has never hidden its views on detention."
Ministers are understood to be considering new bomb-detecting screening systems for British airports in the wake of last week's scare.

The current machines are unable to pick up the cocktail of liquid chemicals which the alleged terrorists were planning to smuggle onto flights.

New so-called 'puffer machines', which shoot jets of air at passengers and gather particles of skin and clothes to check for evidence of explosive material, are likely to be considered.
Similar machines have been installed in several American airports and are being tested to see if they successfully identify chemicals used to make bombs.

Alternatively, airports could install X-ray machines which can pick up organic materials used in many explosives.

Ministers met on Friday to discuss introducing new technology into airports to counter the growing threat.

One insider said: "They are going away to think up a system that the airlines can deliver, that is safe and people will tolerate.

"They are looking at new technology that might be delivered without taking up too much of passengers' time."


http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1178302006&format=print



It won't happen.

Last year he tried to pass such an act, but fot the first time in his nine year premiership, Blair lost the vote in the Commons.

He would lose by an even bigger majority than before, as people will vote just to put pressure on Blair himself



Oh and the bit about airport security and baggage restrictions continuing indefinately,

they were stepped down at 0430 British Summer Time this morning- hand baggage is now permitted

[cursed74]

It won't happen.

Last year he tried to pass such an act, but fot the first time in his nine year premiership, Blair lost the vote in the Commons.

He would lose by an even bigger majority than before, as people will vote just to put pressure on Blair himself



Oh and the bit about airport security and baggage restrictions continuing indefinately,

they were stepped down at 0430 British Summer Time this morning- hand baggage is now permitted
what about things such as laptops and mp3 players? cuase that could make for a freaking long boring flight if they are still banned when i go to Vegas in a couple of months

[TheZenMan]

I went to public schools. I could read before I went to kindergarten and I got detention for writing in cursive in second grade and for reading The Hobbit in third grade. I was never taught long division in any grade. In high school I constantly had problems with the administrative staff who barred me from classes that I should have been allowed into. In every school I went to I was one of the schools top performers. I learned outside of school because I like learning.

So the question you would actually want to ask me is what did I learn in public education.

Oh I see.

I forgot you not only have all the answers, but also the questions.

And with such a talent, you don't need anyone on the other end of a discussion. That just slows you down. Carry on.

[HaloGuardian]

So...did you learn that in our education system?

Did you come up with that question in Logic class?

[HaloGuardian]

Perhaps one of the goals of terrorism is to make American people further despise and mistrust their own government.

Highly doubtful, the government could disprove any conspiracy on anything if they really wanted to, if what they are saying is true. They choose not to.

[Team Brian GB]

what about things such as laptops and mp3 players? cuase that could make for a freaking long boring flight if they are still banned when i go to Vegas in a couple of months

I don't know what they're up to in the US, but here in the UK it is normal service resumed bar any liquids

[TheZenMan]

Did you come up with that question in Logic class?

Hush.

You don't get to address me in political threads. You got nothing.

[HaloGuardian]

Oh yes I forget almighty one.

*bows down

[cursed74]

Bush Says Foiled Jetliner Plot Shows U.S. 'Is Safer Than It Has Been, Yet It Is Not Yet Safe'

[outsider]

Oh I see.

I forgot you not only have all the answers, but also the questions.

And with such a talent, you don't need anyone on the other end of a discussion. That just slows you down. Carry on.

I could have answered simply yes but I wanted to give a little background on it. I don't have all the answers and I never tried to imply that. Though yes there are questions that should be asked, ones that demand for more than a simple yes or no answer.

I learn new shit everyday in my life and when I have a doubt about something I go out and learn more about it.

School taught me that being an overachiever can get you suspended and reprimanded.

[TheZenMan]

I could have answered simply yes but I wanted to give a little background on it. I don't have all the answers and I never tried to imply that. Though yes there are questions that should be asked, ones that demand for more than a simple yes or no answer.

I learn new shit everyday in my life and when I have a doubt about something I go out and learn more about it.

School taught me that being an overachiever can get you suspended and reprimanded.

Dude, all your back patting has totally clouded any point you may have had.
You're smart, get over it.

Let's go back to the original quote.



It is after all what our education system is set up to do. To churn out greased cogs in our society. It isn't to teach people how to think or why to think, not even to teach them what to think.

Just to prepare them to be a manager's monkey.



By virtue of your own explanation you prove yourself untrue.
Though you may have meant to imply success in spite of the system, the outcome still shows you learned something contrary to what you claim is taught.

You sound like chunk, just pissed off and spewing venom.